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DISCUSSA Nation Teeming With Elmer Gantrys
| 11/07/2007Yes, that was the sound of 148 televangelists all trying to get through to their lawyers at the same time yesterday morning as the faxes from the Senate Finance Committee sputtered into their headquarters.
For those of you who haven’t yet read about it in the Tampa Tribune (first to break the story), seen it on CBS News (first and most thorough in the electronic media), or pondered its implications in the Wall Street Journal, here’s what happened:
Senator Chuck Grassley, the Iowa Republican whose middle name is “Mr. Accountability,” concluded a two-year investigation of big “prosperity church” ministries with a few suspicions about whether the spirit of the tax code might be in peril. So he sent out letters requesting full voluntary financial disclosure to six of those organizations–three big ones and three not so big.
The headliners were Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and his lovely wife Gloria, and Creflo Dollar and his exquisely named wife Taffi.
Less well known, unless you happen to subscribe to “Widow-Fleecing Monthly,” were Randy and Paula White, the couple whose Without Walls International Church in Tampa outlasted their marriage; Joyce Meyer and her loving husband David, of Joyce Meyer Ministries in Fenton, Missouri, who may have had to use their $23,000 marble-topped commode when they heard the news; and Bishop Eddie Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church of Lithonia, Georgia, who apparently made the list because of his healthy appetite for faith-based-initiative money.
Confused yet? We happen to know a few of the people at Trinity Foundation who did the nitty-gritty detective work on this, so we’ll lay it out for you:
There’s been a trend over the past 20 years for non-profit corporations, which are required to file reports with the Internal Revenue Service, to convert themselves into churches, which are not required to file anything.
Some of these churches have an appetite for Gulfstream jets, beachfront mansions, Bentleys and cosmetic-surgery funds. This is, of course, in conscious imitation of the Yuppie from Galilee.
People usually have one of three reactions to stories like this:
- So what? It’s fools taking money from fools.
- Yes, they’re greedy, but they still bring people to God.
- God helps those who help themselves. They’ve been blessed. (Admittedly, I don’t know anyone who believes this, but that’s sort of what the “prosperity gospel” is all about.)
All three reactions amount to “Let’s not get our panties all in a bunch about a few redneck preachers getting rich. We’ve got more important things to focus on.”
Unfortunately, it cuts a little deeper than that. The amount of information considered by the Finance Committee before starting down this road amounted to at least the suspicion of a vast criminal conspiracy. (And, lest you think I’m exaggerating, just check the interlocking directorates, shared board members, and shared jet leases of the top 50 or so players that the committee is looking at.) Some of these guys are little more than carnies. Others aren’t as self-consciously criminal but believe their own publicity—but they also know that they’re taking money intended for disaster relief, aid to the poor, and aid to orphans, and converting it into personal luxury items. If that’s legal, then the law should be changed. If that’s illegal, then there should be at least as much jail time for them as Martha Stewart got for lying to the SEC.
Considering the huge issues at stake here—Can the government demand accountability from a church? Can the government define what is and is not a church? Can a religious organization refuse to comply with requests for information on First Amendment grounds?—you might be wondering why Senator Grassley, not a stupid man, sent a mere six letters that have no real teeth to them. If the targeted evangelist were to pull a Bartleby-the-Scrivener and say “I prefer not to answer,” then theres no penalty for that.
But then these were not just any letters. These were very specific letters. These letters had the kind of specific questions that make you pucker up when you read them.
Imagine if you got a letter from Congress saying, “Do you have an AK-47 with serial number 43789467 stowed behind a toolbox in your garage? Please answer yes or no.”
They were those kind of questions. They were the kind of questions that give you the impression that perhaps the Congressman asking them already knows the answer. Hence the phone calls to the lawyers yesterday morning.
We’ll see how this plays out. My own prediction is that most will decide not to comply at all, and then the committee will move in the direction of subpoenas. That will throw everything into a political debate leading up to the 2008 elections, with Republicans asking, “Will this alienate evangelicals?” and Democrats, who actually run the Finance Committee, asking, “Are the Republicans bringing this up to make it look like we hate religion?” That will at least be the occasion for delays, but eventually hearings will be held, the head of the IRS will get pressure, lawsuits will be filed.
If you wanna follow along, check back with us tomorrow. I’ll have some of the best “Long Dong Silver” stories from the files of the Senate Finance Committee.
What has angered me most about any religion is the tax exemption status, particularly these mega money making kind!
Here in Northeast Ga we have Free Chapel (Rev Jentezen Franklin)who has taken a huge hunk of choice real estate off the tax rolls
http://www.freechapel.org/about/message.aspx
To Anonymous...
Godpseed??? Is that you! Decided to give the Chat Closet a break huh? Oh well...given enough rope...someone will hang themselves.
And if Anonymous isn't Godpseed from the Closet...my apologies...but do get some help and learn your own name so when you sign it, it will be legible to all...
Unless you're askeerd!
Eric
Anonymous:
Take your meds.
I have always liked the Door. I may not tell my friends at church, because they would not understand. But I do take issue with one thing here, this quote:
"All three reactions amount to “Let’s not get our panties all in a bunch about a few redneck preachers getting rich. We’ve got more important things to focus on.”
Your use of redneck is offensive and smacks of cultural elitism. The same sort of elitism that we see in the media when they mock Christians as ignorant snake handlers. Besides that, half of the people you mentioned are not rednecks, I doubt Benny Hinn has ever went deer hunting, or extolled the virtues of pork rinds and Waylon Jennings.
White Trash may have been a better label, or here's an idea-don't use a label at all! Hypocrisy and greed knows no race, culture or socio-economic groups.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
Keep up the good work-just knock off these kind of cheap shots!
Cordial Regards...
Since a good part of the Door staff are native Texans, raised in rural towns where there were only three churches, Methodist, Presbyterian and Baptist, they have some rights to use words like "redneck," because they are talking about themselves and their own. But, as I have family from Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee, and the only ancestor who I know fought in the Civil War was a union veteran from Tennessee, I also find it a bad choice of word. On the other hand, what's wrong with being a redneck? Originally it meant someone who spent so much time working out in the fields your neck got sunburned. You wouldn't find any of these "Word Faith" millionaires doing that kind of good honest labor.
I have had a hard time swallowing the gospel of these guys for a long time. I'm glad someone is finally holding them accountable. But reading through these comments, it's clear to me that a lot of you religious people are just spiteful assholes. Your gospel is a little tough to take seriously, too.
Hosea 4:6 (New International Version)
God doesn't want us rich or happy, he wants us obedient. Read your Bible so you won't be deceived. Compare everything to the word of God before you mail off your seed blessing.
6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
"Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children.
It is strange to me to see Christians who are glad to see this happen. I hate to see self serving hypocrites use Gods name in vain and defame us all. the results are hard to watch; see how people turn away from God because of the hypocrisy of christians.
just look at some the posts in this conversation, accusing Gods' Word of being useless simply because of personal experience with Christians who did not really read it, and blaming christians for civil wars. Unfortunately, Christians might deserve this but God does not.
What do you do with salt that loses it saltiness?
"just look at some the posts in this conversation, accusing Gods' Word of being useless simply because of personal experience with Christians who did not really read it, and blaming christians for civil wars. Unfortunately, Christians might deserve this but God does not."
God has just as much culpability in all of this, as his followers. If there is a divine cosmic plan for humanity, and god acts through his willing followers, and his followers are carrying out this divine plan through criminal activity-- then god has a measure of culpability for these crimes.
Additionally, if god is both culpable, but exempt, for these activities, then what does this say about the nature of the christian god?
So if I get this right Jesus wouldn't drive a Ford? Then wearing a Timex and eating fast food is probably out too. My name doesn't sound Christian either. We, the unsaved, are not allowed to judge these supposed "angels"? When they continuously flaunt their worldly goods and abuse the system that allows them their electronic pulpit. I help pay for the airwaves they blather on and the airways they seem so intent on flitting about on. Only the "saved" can criticize or reprimand them? Well, the time is long past for their equals to do so. The rampant wealth acquisition theology steals from the vulnerable and (I'm guessing)a lot from those who can least afford it. I better not rant too much or one will show up on my doorstep attempting an exorcism and force-feed me Pentecost flakes and Salvation'Os (with franks). Thanks to John Bloom and all the rest for keeping these frauds on their holier-than-thou hypocritical toes. By the way, I am a Republican and I vote...for the person that I think will do the job, not the one that prays the loudest.
Ah Shannon, please marry me. In Irish, your name is "An tSionna".
I'm a 45, male, and taken. My spouse is a fiery, busty redhead. I don't think I can get any better than that! She's a democrat (nobody's perfect) but also votes for the person, not the party. So... if you still want to marry, you have to outdo all of that and more.
Good post.
Unfortunately, white evangelicals still have the Rev.Hagee types, who keep their KKK uniforms neatly pressed in the closet anytime bigotry against Catholics, Jews, gays, and whatever other self-hatred arises.
Thanks, Ole and friends, for your hard work to bring these folks to the attention of the authorities. Now, hopefully the authorities can get out of their own way, and as Martin Luther might have said, use their power of the sword to restrain these evildoers.
The late John Paul II travelled about 725,000 miles,(may be, the most travelled "evange;list" in modern times)reaching nearly 100 countries across the globe - He called it Pastoral Visits - Pastor meaning Shepherd; I hear Benny Hinn uses Corcorde to fly from New York to London to heal the sick, the sad and the sinning - How many Concorde Flights did John Paul take?
one reporter told of benny hinn collecting $200,000,000 a year. then in the same breath said that his salary was $2.1 million. that is like 1% of the income his ministry brings in. how many best selling books has he written? looks like to me he is living below his means for sure as with most of the ministries that have made the headlines latley. I pastor a small church with a weekly income of abour $300.00 I work two jobs and my wife works too. I've been to most of these big ministries services before and for me you couldn't pay me enough to go through what they endure. they are doing the work of the lord. but the travel and sacrifice they make is beyond words. it just strang to me to see people tear down others. go look into the porn industy and see how they live or a brewery company and see if they have a jet or two.
Naked women and beer. I'll take that assignment.
Time for Paula White, Ken Copeland, Mr. Hinn and Mr. Dollar to go to jail. These people have done more harm to the cause of Christ than any group of gays or Muslims you can imagine. They are terrible preachers, not one bit interested in giving this broken and corrupted world the truth it seeks and so desperately needs. If Mick Jagger -- MICK JAGGER! -- can figure out that "you can't always get what you want," you'd think a group of people who promote themselves as ministers of Christ could figure it out. But they are NOT ministers of Christ. They are frauds, swindlers, money-grubbers and common low criminals who deserve jail far more richly than the pot-smokers and prostitutes who are the majority of the current prison population.
Time for Paula White, Ken Copeland, Mr. Hinn and Mr. Dollar to go to jail. These people have done more harm to the cause of Christ than any group of gays or Muslims you can imagine. They are terrible preachers, not one bit interested in giving this broken and corrupted world the truth it seeks and so desperately needs. If Mick Jagger -- MICK JAGGER! -- can figure out that "you can't always get what you want," you'd think a group of people who promote themselves as ministers of Christ could figure it out. But they are NOT ministers of Christ. They are frauds, swindlers, money-grubbers and common low criminals who deserve jail far more richly than the pot-smokers and prostitutes who are the majority of the current prison population.
In the parlance of self perseverance I must say to myself, “Self… this aggression will not stand.” And with that said, I say Cheers to El senator Grassy-nole theory and all those who hail justice as an ample guidance to all, and every endeavor of the heart, mind and spirit. And with that said too I leave you with this to think about…”The Truth is heavy, therefore few care to carry it!"
TV peachers and their foolish supportors are more proof that god doesn't exist.
…sad thing about atheism Satan, no hope. I guess that's why people kill themselves.
You know what? I never met a dead guy I didn't like. Hmmm… I guess even Hitler would be tolerable now, that is if you can find him under the rubble.
I am a tax lawyer who represents many tax-exempt organizations, including some churches that have been audited by the IRS (but none of the 6 targeted by Senator Grassley). I consider myself to be "evangelical," am a long-time meber of the Christian Management Association, and am a ruling elder in the Presbyterian Church of America.
My comments below are not directed to the merits of whether the churches in question are churches (for theological or tax purposes), whether they are or should be tax-exempt, or whether they are orthodox in theology, ministry, etc., a point that I'm sure many would debate. I don't know enough about them to opine in public with any certainty on any of those issues. Instead, my comments are directed only to the procedural aspects of Senator Grassley's demands, because I believe that Senator Grassley is not entitled to receive the information he is requesting directly from these churches.
I agree that churches that choose to be tax-exempt are accountable to the Government for their compliance with the requirements for exemption under Sec. 501(c)(3)--the provision of the Internal Revenue Code under which churches and other charities are exempt. However, Congress has enacted specific procedures for exercising this oversight, and they do not include the Senate Finance Committee. Under Sec. 7611 of the Internal Revenue Code, the IRS must step through certain procedures before it can audit a church. These are not especially burdensome to the IRS, and its practice has made them even less so (probably illegally).
Given the existence of these procedures, I don't believe that Senator Grassley can or should unilaterally require churches to provide information directly to the Senate Finance Committee. Congress is entitled to exercise oversight of the IRS, and the IRS is entitled to exercise limited oversight of the the churches, but (this not being math) Congress is not entitled to exercise direct oversight of churches. Were I representing one of those churches, I would respectfully decline to respond in substance, and suggest to Senator Grassley that if he believes the IRS has improperly recognized (or failed to revoke) the church's exemption, then he can ask the IRS to open an audit, subject to the requirements of Sec. 7611. He appears to have certain very specific information that would, in my experience, be more than enough for the IRS to open a "church tax inquiry," followed by a "church tax examination" (audit) if the responses it received during the inquiry were not sufficient to satisfy its concerns. He should turn that information over to the IRS and let them audit the ministries.
In general, if the principal allegations are that the leaders of these churches have received unduly high compensation or other benefits, no new law needs to be enacted, and thus, there is no reason that Congress needs this information. The IRS simply has to enforce the laws that Congress has enacted. These include (potentially) both revocation of exemption under Sec. 501(c)(3), and, under Sec. 4958 of the Code, the imposition of excise taxes of 25% on the amount of the "excess benefit" (plus repayment of the "excess benefit").
It's also worth noting that, according to Joyce Meyer Ministries, it has recently been audited by the IRS and received a letter from the IRS indicating that the audit was closed without change to its exempt status. Without having seen the text of the letter, it suggsts that the IRS didn't find any significant problems during the audit. It also highlights the importance of fllowing the procedures, so that churches aren't being hit from more than one direction at the same time.
Regardless of the outcome anyone favors, procedural protections enacted by Congress should be respected by Congress.
The notion that the government cannot investigate non-profit churches and ministries, because it will violate freedom of religion, is utter nonsense. The legal question here is whether these ministries are following the law that allows them to be not-for-profit. For that, they must be accountable. And frankly, if they are following those laws, they should be open, transparent, and have nothing to hide.
I miss Ernest Angley and the four singing men.
IT IS SO VERY SAD THAT THESE " SO CALLED MINISTERS" ARE ALLOWED TO FLAUNT THEIR WATERED DOWN GOSPEL ACROSS THE AIRWAVES. I
I want to testify on behalf of the tele evangelist. I sent my last $43.26 to Kenneth Copeland. Six months later I won a local contest and received a years supply of moon pies. Hallelujah. Brother Copeland is for real. I'm believing for a years supply of RC Cola. I've made a request to all of the big six to stand in agreement with me. I don't believe God would want one of his children to have all of those moon pies with no RC Cola to go with them.
"I've made a request to all of the big six to stand in agreement with me. I don't believe God would want one of his children to have all of those moon pies with no RC Cola to go with them."
Yep, it's a part of god's divine plan....meal plan, that is. :)
Attn: Anonymous 1124pm 110807: For your information Yves Breault is a very common name in Quebec, which is psobably the MOST CHRISTIAN, MOST (MORALLY) CONSERVATIVE Province in Canada. Vive le Quebec Libre-- Vive St-Jean=Baptiste, Vive Ste-Anne de Beaupre !! From a fellow Quebecois... Pierre Desjardins.
To Anonymous 0859 11/11: I don't believe the Pope ever used a Concorde .. since that aircreft was allowed to fly inyo/out of maybe a half-dozen airports. As I recall He usually flew on an Alitalia 737 or similar Boeing model aircraft... I wonder whatever became of His frequent flyer miles (or is it kilometres ?? ) ??? Did the Pope give them to charity or what ?
Some of you sound so hateful, I don't you are qualified to judge one another in any context. Any unsaved stranger passing through here, reading what you wrote, wouldn't want what you have--if indeed it *is* salvation. Listen to yourselves.
That was judgemental.
I adore Joyce Meyer for overcoming her hard background and for her good teaching. But I heard her talking about her plastic surgery and laughing about wanting more of it, maybe on her arms, this time, and saying, "Don't judge me, you want it, too." No, I don't. And she concluded that she deserved to live in a good house and wear nice clothes. Yes, she does. We all do. If we can earn the money.
And our teachers do deserve good things, Galatians 6:6.
But if she wants to spend her offerings on excesses like plastic surgery, if Ken Copeland wants to spend his offering on house payments for a huge mansion, they can collect their offerings from somebody else, not me.
In contrast, the Southern Baptists have the Cooperative Program that puts foreign and inner city missionaries on comfortable, not extravagant, salaries, so they can preach the gospel, not raise support. And they have to preach with their wrinkles and sagging jawlines; they do not get plastic surgery, with their comfortable salaries, that I know of.
I love the Southern Baptists--as far as they go.
If they'd just note that the Great Commission says to "do all things whatsoever I have taught you" "until the end of the age," and take note of what that refers to in Matthew 10 and the GC in Mark, and DO ALL THINGS he taught them, they'd be a really great denomination.
And then maybe so many people wouldn't be looking to televangelists like Benny Hinn and his healings, because they would be doing all things in their churches where they should take place: "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, freely you have received, freely give" and they "confirmed the Word with signs following."
The Word still needs confirming every day, because every day, someone new hears it and doubts it.
Jude v. 3--"contend for the faith once and for all delivered to the saints"
And every day, someone needs the compassionate, healing touch of Jesus.
And yes, look it up--there is a hundred-fold return promised to anyone who gives, along with persecutions.
Revelation 3 talks about a church that is poor, wretched, miserable, blind and naked. The Laodicean church. The last church age before John said "Come up here" and Revelation begins.
That could be our day. If so, that is our church age!
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock," Jesus says. He also says to buy salve for our blind eyes!
Let's open the door and let Jesus be Jesus, let the Holy Spirit have his way in our--that is, HIS--churches.
And the televangelists won't have an audience anymore.
It's about time somebody asked for transparent accountability in these ministries (a rock-solid Christian principle if I ever heard one). Those being responsible with the money entrusted to them for reaching the lost and helping the less fortunate would likely say, "Wow! What a great opportunity to let my little light shine. I would love to show you all the ways we use this money to make a difference in the lives of people that Jesus loves." For those that hide (like Adam did in the Garden of Eden after eating the forbidden fruit), I suspect the truth might be a source of shame rather than a sense of delight in faithfulness. It's reasonable to see how many step into the light versus how many head for the shadows.
Doug "Stripes"
I response to all of this I think that the Great Judge Jesus will trump all of what has been said in this thread. This is my take, all of these televangelists that push the prosperity "gospel" are really saying one thing that they don't believe in God, who when the time comes will judge them according to their works(and us too!). To add to or take away from the scriptures is dangerous to say the least. It is forbidden in the Word several times. We are definitely living in the last days and I don't think that the Father will put up with His Name being drawn through the mud by these self-appointed "Anointed men of -----" To call them anything to justify their actions is insulting to God and all others who trust in the Messiah. I am on the outside looking in, for I am Jewish and I believe in the Messiah Y'shua(Greek Jesus) but find it hard to Identify with gentile Christians who don't identify with a Jewish Jesus. The reception I have had at churches any time Jews are spoken about disdainfully is not of my own making but it seems to me that the churches do not care for unity even with those that it should be
the closest to. The bride of Christ should police itself and not drag its laundry out before the world but this world won't do us any favors, remember that the prince of the power of the air is working against us as believers always and will not leave us alone one second. PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM and pray for believers world-wide and that our churches and synagogues ( both messianic and orthodox because the duty of a committed believer is to the Jew first and then to the Greek to bring them to the messiah) Leave these prosperity preachers to the world they so obviously want and let's just spread Jesus' gospel without them.
Dear Anon,
Personally, I wouldn't know Joyce Meyer from Eve, but I have a few minor issues with your first paragraph:
[Joyce Meyer] "saying, "Don't judge me, you want it, too." No, I don't. And she concluded that she deserved to live in a good house and wear nice clothes. Yes, she does. We all do. If we can earn the money."
"Don't judge me, you want it, too." has got to be one of the most self-serving things ever heard from someone claiming to preach the gospel. She clearly recognizes that she should be judged for it, and yet her defense is, "you want it too"? Conviction of sin is an opportunity for repentance, not an occasion to justify it because someone else wants to do the same. And worse yet, this is a supposed pastor/teacher/someone who should be setting an example. That's a lousy example.
Second, do we deserve to live in a good house? (Whether we work for it or not?) Doesn't it say the foxes have their dens and the birds have their nests, but the Son of Man has not place to lay his head? Yes, I want those things to, but if Jesus didn't have them, why should I believe I *DESERVE* them? I pray I will have them, but that's a request, not a demand. That's the difference between grace and works.
Those that would steal from the true blessings of Gods' word, distort its' teachings to gain the spoils of man and fleece the "ignorant" to reap finances, not souls, could only do so with no respect for mankind and no fear of God himself. Ergo, they don't qualify as worthy of religious exemption. If mankind chooses to pardon theses criminals that is our fault. Since God has no fault, then we (and they) can rest assured that HE won't be so merciful upon their judgement day. To "know" that and to still endulge isn't just hypocritical and criminal... but boldly ignores both sets of laws, making them (in their minds) above the law of the land AND "The Almighty" whom they claim to serve.
"What comes around... will go around."
IT IS SO SAD THAT THE CHURCH HAS MADE DIVIATED SO MUCH THAT THE WORLD IS INVESTIGATING US NOW GOD HAS NOT CALLED US TO MAKE ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD THAT IS FOR MOVIE STARS AND FILM ACTORS WE ARE CALLED TO BE GOOD STEWARDS BUT UNFORTUNATELY ALOT OF MINISTERS HAVE NOT DONE THAT
May God help each one of us to live as "He lived". Self serving hucksters are not new and will not thwart God from His plan. May God give us wisdom to discern and to think critically as to how to use His resources. To do so is not wrong, it is essential of His followers. We are asked to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned and to look after the widows and orphans and to preach "the good news". Where does it say to send the money to someone else to fullfil this, our personal mandate from our Lord? If we do so, we had better examine the life style of those who are asking for money. Do they live like Him? "Many will say on that day, Lord, Lord did we not cast out demons in your name, did we not perform miracles...?" His ominous words recorded in Matthew 7, "depart from me you workers of iniquity" may not only be for the hucksters, the wolves in sheep clothing, but also to those greedy followers of the wolves, who give to get. You can't love God and mammon at the same time. By the way, for those who use profanity to express their views, no matter what they are, I can only say, WWJS? (s = say)
Blessings!
It's not a sin to be rich but it is a sin if your deceiving people to get rich. Warren Buffet makes them all look like a welfare case but yet he is a modest person and just gave 63 billion to the Gates Foundation for world health. Warren Buffet is more a christens then these televangelists could ever be.
I noticed in the above article the mention of “Widow-Fleecing Monthly" in relation to the lesser known ministries being investigated. This made me think of the story in 1 Kings 17:7 about the widow at Zarephath. In this story, the prophet Elijah goes to a poor widow and asks her to take give him the last piece of bread that she has; the piece that she and her son were going to eat before they died. In faith, she was supposed to give Elijah her last bit of food believing that God would not let her and her son go hungry. Of course, they did not as God supernaturally provided for them. Now I am not trying to be sarcastic, but if a preacher or "prophet" today were to do the same thing as Elijah did, would they not be scorned to shame? Could Elijah too be seen as a "widow fleecer?" Any sincere insight into this would be appreciated.
Elijah was a true prophet, with a Word from the Lord for this particular widow. You can't take this Scripture and apply it to other believers (ie, as justification for prosperity pimps who request the widow's last mite). It was a word for the widow and she obeyed. The fact that her supply of flour and oil weren't exhausted until the Lord sent rain proves Elijah's request was a Word from God.
Prophecy means "speaking forth the Word of God." Since the Bible is now complete (ie, God is not adding to it with special revelation), any prophecy today must be a speaking forth of what is in Scripture. And of course, we must rightly divide the Word of Truth and study God's Word diligently, understanding Scripture in context and not pulling verses out of context to justify a love of $$.
We want our Christian televisions leaders to be good. When they sometimes prove the opposite conclusion, will we have faith in God that God is exposing wolves in sheep’s clothing? Or will we keep supporting whom God exposes as frauds? Kris Kristofferson wrote, “I don’t believe no one wants to know.” Apparently, neither does God. He wants us to see. He wants us to know. He wants us to see the truth about all things, core things, doctrinal things, doctrine-driven difficulties of false shepherds. For years and years false shepherds howl when bad news is published about them. But the bad news keeps coming, and coming and coming. Perhaps they protesteth too much. Perhaps their doctrine stinketh. Perhaps someday a doctrinal correction will come!
"For years and years false shepherds howl when bad news is published about them. But the bad news keeps coming, and coming and coming."
Thank god for the liberal media.
If one reads the word of God, in the Old Testament book of Genesis, it states & tells the story of how Abraham was very rich, and in the New Testament book in Galations 3, it states that those who are in Christ, are blessed along with faithful Abraham. In the New Testament, the Bible uses Abraham as an example for Christians. I did not know these things when I first became a Christian, until I started deeply studying the word when I heard people proclaim things. God sent his only Son, Jesus to take on the sins of the world and through his death & resurrection to bring us into right standing with God - if we receive Him. Anyone who serves the God of the whole Universe can be blessed, just like the first man Adam was before he sinned. The word does state that the main purpose of prosperity is to get out the Gospel out (to establish God's covenant), which in today's world costs money (TV, missions, etc.). I am not saying that some have not gone overboard - however, all will have to answer to God, including the investigators. Only God knows the heart's motives. I am one that has been personally blessed from serving & giving to my local church (obo God's kingdom), and I don't yet have an independant ministry. (My Pastor is even self-supporting!) God's blessings are not always just increased finances, but it can be in having all bills paid, getting out of debt, release of old habits, having a blessed family, a well body, and personal peace in dealing with life's ups & downs. (Yes, I have all of this.) I rarely have heard of independent nvestigations of CEOs of large non-religious companies. Are they doing everything right? Don't some of them have planes & people invest in them? Do they work harder & therefore are above reproach? Hmmmmm .... I would thinks that God's business is much larger.
All Churches should be forced to pay taxes. Didn't Christ himself say: "RFender all that is to Ceaser to Ceaser, Render all that is the God to God"?
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Benny Hinn is laughing all the way to the bank!I used to believe in this charlatan,until the day that I stepped back and really thought about what he claimed to be doing...Throwing the Holy Spirit like a basketball at the audience.Think about it,Almighty God being thrown at the crowd to knock them down,being blown onto people,being swung in a suitcoat,throwing people through the air..landing on top of each other.I realized how blasphemous and absurd the whole thing really is!! Then,I heard Benny tell a story,in which the face of Jesus Christ appeared in a balcony during a crusade.Benny said the image stayed for a number of days,and was studied by experts who had studied the Shroud of Turin.Now here's the real shocker.Benny said that every time HE spoke,the mouth on the "image"would move!!!As if Benny's words were Christ's words!!??!!That did it for me,I could take no more of his outrageous lies.Benny claimed he had "video" of the "miracle",but of course it was never shown.I am so disgusted by what I see in the Charismatic Movement nowadays(Todd Bentley for example)that I am seriously considering getting out of it entirely.I dont know what I believe anymore,except Christ and Him crucified. Alease,your sister in Christ
Sister in Christ, your last sentence says it all- Christ and Him crucified. We warned not follow cleverly schemes of men but look to Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith. Lets follow the example of the Bereans and search the scriptures and determine whether those things are so. Much of the nonsense that we see comes to our front door because we have been lazy about checking out these hirelings by scripture. Remember that the entrance of God's Word gives light. We should not be ignorant of Satan's devices. The Word tells us that there will come a time when men will call good evil and evil good. We are living in such times. But Jesus is still Lord and He is going to rectify all of this mess in His own time. Be encouraged in the Lord!
The apostles suffered many things when they proclaimed the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is very telling that those who would make a commodity of the Lord have no shame. Christians around the world are being persecuted for the gospel's sake, but these hirelings would abandon the flock at the drop of a dime, or more so, after they would have taken it.
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